String Theory

[BlackWatch]

Figured I'd christen the new board with the first topic...

How many people here subscribe to the latest theory in physics that tries to unite the theory of relativity and quantum physics (the theory of the very big and the theory of the very small) called string theory.

I find it fascinating and very plausible. I'm looking forward to it being proven right!

For those who aren't familiar with the theory I've got a quick, and lazy, Wiki link:

Clicky!

[SM]

Try as I might, and I have, I have no fucking idea what they're trying to explain with string theory.  I've read a little about it - might try that wiki link again - and watched a doco about it on Discovery - the same doco a couple of times - and it still goes straight through to the keeper.

It just strikes me as science with anything really backing it up.  Not unlike religion.  At least with things like black holes there's some maths behind it with gravity and and the speed of light and stuff like that (have they conclusively proven they exist yet?).  String theory makes me want to purse my lips, take my index finger and go B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-!!! 

[BlackWatch]

No, they haven't proven the strings exist. It's all part of a theoretical mathematical equation. I've seen that Discovery documentary too... I thought it explained things fairly well. Then again, I couldn't describe the theory to you going on that by memory!

The major angle of the theory is that currently there are two separate and conflicting theory's of physics - Einstein's theory of relativity, which governs very big things (planets, suns, galaxies, etc) and quantum physics, which governs very little things (atoms, molecules, protons, etc). Only problem is both use different rules to govern physics in the universe, so both can't be right. String theory proposes that both can be right because of the introduction of a quantifying theory (string theory) which unites both of the other two theories.

I believe part of the theory has to do with the major forces of quantum physics - electromagnetic force, weak and strong nuclear force. Can't quite remember the relationship between those aspects and Einstein's theory, however.

Damn, need to watch that docu again!

[SM]

No, they haven't proven the strings exist.

Yeah I know.  What with it being a 'theory' and all.     What I meant was have they proven black holes exist yet, beyond "All the maths points to there being a black hole in this region of space".

I've seen that Discovery documentary too... I thought it explained things fairly well.

Must be me then.  Not overly surprising.

[BlackWatch]

Yeah I know.  What with it being a 'theory' and all.     What I meant was have they proven black holes exist yet, beyond "All the maths points to there being a black hole in this region of space".

Nope, I think they're still depending on math to prove the existance of black holes too. Although I did catch a documentary, on Discovery again, about black holes recently but fucked if I can remember much from it!

Pretty sure it had some other "proof" of their existence beyond the math. Can't remember what that was though... Mind being a sieve and all.

There's an interesting theory out there that black holes are at the centre of every galaxy which is what causes the stars to 'orbit' the centre. Projected models suggest that eventually all stars and planets would be drawn into the middle of the galaxy and destroyed by said blackhole (in all galaxies). Meaning all galaxies would eventually be destroyed. Despite the fact we are talking trillions of years the idea itself is rather disheartening (if it's true).

Of course you can make up any theory if there is no way to prove or disprove it sufficiently.

[SM]

There's an interesting theory out there that black holes are at the centre of every galaxy which is what causes the stars to 'orbit' the centre.

Pfft - everyone knows Azathoth is at the centre of the galaxy...

[Limited Vertigo]

This is pretty much 90% of the kind of stuff I enjoy reading.  One of my favorite books on the subject is "The Elegant Universe" by Brian Greene.  I'm fascinated by String Theory as well as the idea that there are forces within the universe that travel faster than the speed of light.

[BlackWatch]

Actually the gravity of the black holes no matter how big are not strong enough to hold everything in orbit.

Yeah, orbit was a poor choice of words on my part. Just couldn't think of how else to describe it. But there is some math that points to black holes being at the centre of galaxies and the stars are being slowly pulled into the centre. I'm not saying it's true, but there is a theory out there.

This is pretty much 90% of the kind of stuff I enjoy reading.  One of my favorite books on the subject is "The Elegant Universe" by Brian Greene.  I'm fascinated by String Theory as well as the idea that there are forces within the universe that travel faster than the speed of light.

Yes The Elegant Universe! That was also the name of the Discovery docu.

And I'm still waiting for the math that can prove particles can move faster than the speed of light! Upon approaching light speed time slows down so in theory if you travel faster than light you'll be going back in time! Yumma-humma!

[Neltharion]

I actually watched something about this on The History Channel, it had some scientist (looked japanese but spoke english somewhat like an American). I can't remember his name, but it was rather interesting.


Way over my head. If they talk about atoms and atomic structure, sure I can understand that.

Talk about Theory of relativity, string theory and quantum physics. My brain explodes.

[Hieronymus]

I actually watched something about this on The History Channel, it had some scientist (looked japanese but spoke english somewhat like an American). I can't remember his name, but it was rather interesting.

Probably Michio Kaku.

What, you thought I died or something?  Nope, not dead, but dreaming.

[Neltharion]

Yea its Michio Kaku.

[deezelboy]

I think the real downfall of superstring theory was its failure to predict the effects of dark energy, which if it had done prior to its discovery, would have been real support for the theory. 

Ok, fair enough, it then got reworked to incorporate dark energy, but being told that there are 10⁵⁰ different ways for dark energy to work according to superstring, and the reason it works this way is because we are the universe that it works that way, was never too convincing! 

Still, you never know...

The major angle of the theory is that currently there are two separate and conflicting theory's of physics - Einstein's theory of relativity, which governs very big things (planets, suns, galaxies, etc) and quantum physics, which governs very little things (atoms, molecules, protons, etc). Only problem is both use different rules to govern physics in the universe, so both can't be right. String theory proposes that both can be right because of the introduction of a quantifying theory (string theory) which unites both of the other two theories.

I believe part of the theory has to do with the major forces of quantum physics - electromagnetic force, weak and strong nuclear force. Can't quite remember the relationship between those aspects and Einstein's theory, however.

Quantum theory explains the electromagnetic, weak and strong theories, and this explanation scales right up to Einstein's relativity theories, which is all really good and unified. 

But quantum theory doesn't have an explanation of gravity, the weakest force, mainly because it plays such an insignicant role at the quantum scale.  Relativity does have a really good explanation of gravity, however.

If you scale down the theory of gravity from relativity down to the quantum level, it doesn't work - you get lots of infinities, which plainly can't be right.  So basically what's needed is an explanation of gravity that works on both quantum and relativistic scales, of which superstring theory was one attempt to do.

--EDIT--

What I meant was have they proven black holes exist yet, beyond "All the maths points to there being a black hole in this region of space".

A (tenative) yes from Sagittarius A*, located at the centre of the Milky Way.  Over the last 17 years, 28 stars have been tracked orbiting this (invisible) point very rapidly, indicating that it's a 4 million solar mass object taking up roughly the area of the orbit of Mercury, with evidence of a bright accretion disc or jet.  If it's not a black hole, we don't know what it is, and it's behaving like we think a black hole would. 

[BlackWatch]

Quantum theory explains the electromagnetic, weak and strong theories, and this explanation scales right up to Einstein's relativity theories, which is all really good and unified. 

But quantum theory doesn't have an explanation of gravity, the weakest force, mainly because it plays such an insignicant role at the quantum scale.  Relativity does have a really good explanation of gravity, however.

If you scale down the theory of gravity from relativity down to the quantum level, it doesn't work - you get lots of infinities, which plainly can't be right.  So basically what's needed is an explanation of gravity that works on both quantum and relativistic scales, of which superstring theory was one attempt to do.

That's it! Couldn't remember the relationship for the life of me. Thanks deez!

[the_philanthropy]

hope this isn't necro-posting....

If anyone's interested: Still this year the attempt will be made to (dis)prove extra dimensions (as suggested by String theory). Ever heard of the LHC, the Large Hadron Collider?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Large_Hadron_Collider

With that awesome thing, this November, they will try to punch out a Higgs boson(and other stuff) out of the (still hypothetical) Higgs Field. If that works, Super String theory will basically be proven. The proof of the Higgs Field would be the greatest scientific breakthrough, since.... since, ever! Or Evolutionary Theory.
This would also verify that at the Big Bang, all major forces in the Universe most likely were just one single force in the beginning of time.

[Dutch90]

hope this isn't necro-posting....

I've done far worse

If it's contributory to the discussion it doesn't really matter in my view.

If anyone's interested: Still this year the attempt will be made to (dis)prove extra dimensions (as suggested by String theory). Ever heard of the LHC, the Large Hadron Collider?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Large_Hadron_Collider

With that awesome thing, this November, they will try to punch out a Higgs boson(and other stuff) out of the (still hypothetical) Higgs Field. If that works, Super String theory will basically be proven. The proof of the Higgs Field would be the greatest scientific breakthrough, since.... since, ever! Or Evolutionary Theory.
This would also verify that at the Big Bang, all major forces in the Universe most likely were just one single force in the beginning of time.

Isn't this what they're afraid will cause black holes and destroy Earth or something? Also, if they're trying to prove alternate dimensions and such, I'm sensing Doom or Mist like scenarios......