So what the F#&% is happening in London? ...

[SM]

There is clearly no reasoning with people who see things in black and white and cherry pick what is in fact black and white.

[Hubbs]

So next time someone in public has a gun go up to them and have a chat.

I love how you think I'm 'cherry picking' the facts when the fact is the guy had a gun, on the streets of London and was a known criminal lol what more do you need for police action!? to wait for the guy to open up on someone?

But I forget...he was mixed race so its all racist of course...keep forgetting that one damn it.

[SM]

Wasn't going to go there - but figured you would eventually.

So it goes...

[SiL]

I love how you think I'm 'cherry picking' the facts when the fact is the guy had a gun, on the streets of London and was a known criminal lol what more do you need for police action!?

... seriously, the fuck is wrong with you that you think the police's only options were "do nothing" and "shoot the fucker to death"?

[Hubbs]

I'm sure they did something before hand, dunno what but they wouldn't just shoot straight away of course, but they won't hesitate to go down that route very quickly especially if that person is a criminal/drug dealer. We don't know what happened, who knows what he was doing before they took that lethal option, I'm sure the police had reason to do it.

Its not a case of....oh the guy is mixed race so that's dodgy.....oh and he's a criminal too so thats all sweet...we can shoot him now.

I know very well this all being angled towards racism which happens every single time a black/mixed race person gets into trouble in London, its incredible and now a boring overused excuse.

[SM]

dunno what but they wouldn't just shoot straight away of course,

And yet that's precisely what you've been saying they did do and, more importantly what they should've done.

But again I repeat, Duggan was A KNOWN CRIMINAL with many connections, he was in possession of a gun, guns are illegal in the UK, if you are carrying a gun its probably with intent otherwise why would have the gun? he was taken down as anyone else would have been black, white, blue or green, end of.

No in the UK you don't carry guns in urban areas, wether you use it or not or whatever the reason it simply doesn't matter, chances are the police will shoot you if they think your a danger....chances are they will shoot you anyway but that's the chance you must accept.

What suspicion!!?? the guy had a gun! there was nothing to be suspicious about, he had a gun and was a known criminal which equals a pretty large risk to the public or whoever he was supposedly after. Whatever reason he had for carrying the gun there is no excuse, chances are you will be shot.

You're whole line of argument seems to be is 'he's in possession of a gun - no matter the circumstances he deserves to be shot to death as a first resort'.

[Hubbs]

My argument is I have no problem with the MET shooting an armed man on the streets of London, if they think thats what they need to do then fine with me.

If said person is a known criminal on top of that then again....shoot away, fine with me.

Saves room in the prison system and saves the tax payer money by not having to look after his ass for the next god knows how many years.

So..bottom line and the moral of the story is...if you do not wish to get gunned down in the street by our boys in blue then quite simply don't carry a gun on the streets. Its s pretty simple notion and most of the English public manage to adhere to it, wanna see what happens or risk how quickly the MET will respond? then by all means go marching into the suburbs of London with a gun in a sock or whatever and see how long you last.

You're whole line of argument seems to be is 'he's in possession of a gun - no matter the circumstances he deserves to be shot to death as a first resort'.

Not quite, not first resort but its a fine line, the reason being why would someone need a gun on the streets? what is his excuse? even if you have a license what is your excuse?
You are obviously up to something, out for trouble, looking for someone, there is intent. There really is no other reason for carrying a gun in a public area, this isn't the wild west, this isn't the wilderness, it was on the streets of London, especially in this age with all the terrorism threats, police will take no chances.

I'm quite sure many people will back the police in their decisions as no one wants to go to the shops with an armed man running around free to do what he wants.

Lets recall that this all started simply because of one thing....the man shot was mixed race, nothing else. Had it been a white man I'm willing to bet there wouldn't have been a care in the world from any groups of people, but because he was mixed race then 'oh my god!' it MUST be a racist killing by our racist police force, of course, why didn't I think of that, oh wait I did, straight away, along with a number of other black people who moan about everything under the sun being racist and take advantage of situations like this.

Had it been a muslim man I'm sure the same issues would have arisen, which is sad, its sad because everything in this country boils down to people screaming racism for anything and everything and the police, and I quote....'damned if they do and damned if they don't'.

This whole incident was not racism, it was simply the MET protecting the public in a way they thought was best for the safety of innocent people.

[deezelboy]

If said person is a known criminal on top of that then again....shoot away, fine with me.

Duggan wasn't a known criminal, was he?  He'd been on remand, but he had no convictions, no criminal records.  Doesn't that make him a suspect, rather than known?

So..bottom line and the moral of the story is...if you do not wish to get gunned down in the street by our boys in blue then quite simply don't carry a gun on the streets.

I think it's very early to be drawing any conclusions or judgements in the case of Duggan, given that we don't actually know what happened.  We don't know if the cops knew, or merely suspected, that Duggan had a gun.  Given some reporting saying that Duggan was shot after he made movements consistent with drawing a weapon, for example, it seems likely that Duggan could well have been shot even though he was not running around with a gun.  It's happened enough times before, to be honest.

Lets recall that this all started simply because of one thing....the man shot was mixed race, nothing else. Had it been a white man I'm willing to bet there wouldn't have been a care in the world from any groups of people, but because he was mixed race then 'oh my god!' it MUST be a racist killing by our racist police force, of course, why didn't I think of that, oh wait I did, straight away, along with a number of other black people who moan about everything under the sun being racist and take advantage of situations like this.

Bear in mind that Duggan was shot by cops serving under Operation Trident, which investigates and responds to gun crime in the black community. 

Contrast this also with the way that Mark Saunders, a white barrister, was shot by police in 2008.  Despite firing on the police, this resulted in a five hour standoff with the police trying to negotiate a non-lethal solution.

I do not know if Duggan was shot because he was black, but I do know that the Met is set up to handle black gun crime differently to any other gun crime.